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Recent LPG Starvation Issue
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Telpat16
Posted 13/9/2013 13:12 (#15708 - in reply to #14894)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: NEWPORT QLD		Will send later today

Engine is running rich because sensor failed lean and ECU over compensates causing a rich misfire
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dazeet
Posted 13/9/2013 15:22 (#15709 - in reply to #15708)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: NSW		Thank you Terry for your clarification that it is not running lean on one bank.

If that's the case, then it'd be ok for me to take it on gentle 50km trips daily for the next three days without inflicting damage, wouldn't it?
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Telpat16
Posted 13/9/2013 17:03 (#15711 - in reply to #15709)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: NEWPORT QLD

Absolutely

 With the sensor disconnected it runs in "open loop" mode and uses the fuel map built into the ECU, without trimming fuel back for better economy

Your fuel use will just be a bit higher than ideal - but still less than recent reeich misfiring wher it was Over adding fuel because it thought it was lean

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dazeet
Posted 13/9/2013 17:17 (#15712 - in reply to #15711)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: NSW		Thank you Terry! Appreciate your reassurance.

Thank God: the dealer said "OK" to the diagnosis. So hopefully I can leave the car at the service centre first thing Monday, and see what happens!

Will keep you all posted.
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Telpat16
Posted 13/9/2013 17:40 (#15713 - in reply to #14894)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: NEWPORT QLD		I have just written the email to all, including other screen captures

It says:

Hi John and Jeff

In the forum Jeff wrote:

“Good morning all, especially to Terry and John!
So the ACT dealer responded and advised me to get a quote, and to ask the LPG specialist for a retune afterwards.
Just spoke to the service advisor that Terry recommended, and he is convinced that, instead of two faulty oxygen sensors, I may have one faulty oxygen sensor (I think he is referring to the pre-cat one on the firewall side...the blue line in the middle graph), and one catalytic converter...?
(This is despite me advising him that the post-cat green line in the middle graph does respond with more throttle input, as with the pre-cat blue line but that is moving less than ideal, and the bottom graph is exactly how Terry's daughter's Outlander behaves...he is saying that, perhaps at least in the 380, the green line should not move much at all...?)
[Perhaps Terry will need to Reply All to this service advisor in our emails so far, with the part of the graph where we were using petrol, and where I was pumping the accelerator pedal whilst on LPG. This may prove that the post-cat green lines ARE supposed to move up and down also, just in a lower frequency than the pre-cat sensors...?]
So now to have it diagnosed by the service advisor and his team, would cost $145. I am not sure if the ACT dealer likes the sound of this, but I will have to let him know regardless. In any case, I have a feeling I will have to cop this charge myself for now, just to get the ball rolling...
At least things are heading in the right direction I guess!”


I partly agree with John, in that if we look at the parts of the graph I have now attached – eg transition LPG > Petrol > LPG and excess rich due to throttle blipping we can see some life in the post cat sensor on rear bank

If I were doing the job myself, and not needing to (possibly) pay two lots of labour I would gamble and first change top sensor and redo the graphs

I believe in view of the Outlander graph the front cat is OK (for now a least – maybe getting a bit tired) , and maybe not enough info on the firewall side cat to really know until the precat sensor is working properly

In the case of the dealer doing the work and then not wanting to have two visits I would have him change both sensors – they are cheaper than the labour and then diagnose system again to see true health of cat converters

I note that none of the codes were cat fault codes (eg P0430) as was the case with my car

Regards

Terry




(Jeff_LPG_UL_LPGs.jpg)



(Jeff_throttle blips_s.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments Jeff_LPG_UL_LPGs.jpg (450KB - 485 downloads)
Attachments Jeff_throttle blips_s.jpg (887KB - 452 downloads)
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dazeet
Posted 16/9/2013 11:26 (#15721 - in reply to #15713)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: NSW		Thank you Terry for sending the graphs to John (both the service advisor and the Administrator here), with corresponding advice.

John (the service advisor) said your car is also in to have one of the cats replaced by a second hand one. Is this the case?
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Administrator
Posted 16/9/2013 11:47 (#15722 - in reply to #14894)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: An island off southern Tasmania.		Good to see they are doing something here...well done for perservering Dazeet.

BTW...love your car's interior, very rare indeed.
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Telpat16
Posted 16/9/2013 15:55 (#15723 - in reply to #15721)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Location: NEWPORT QLD

dazeet - 16/9/2013 11:26 Thank you Terry for sending the graphs to John (both the service advisor and the Administrator here), with corresponding advice. John (the service advisor) said your car is also in to have one of the cats replaced by a second hand one. Is this the case?

 

Yes - realised it was you arriving just after I left

I changed front cat myself but not enough lifting etc equip to get to the back one

Hopefully this will put and end to my random CEL's most of which are Lean Idle, but did have some Bad Cats as well

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dazeet
Posted 16/9/2013 17:07 (#15724 - in reply to #15723)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Posts: 43
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Location: NSW
Administrator - 16/9/2013 11:47

Good to see they are doing something here...well done for perservering Dazeet.

BTW...love your car's interior, very rare indeed.


John - that "something" is still an unknown, as I was unable to take the service advisor's call a few hours back (in fact, I have just finished my lunch!), and I can't get through after two attempts...surprised that they do not appear to have voicemail on their phones! In any case, I have written back to him asking for a written quote so hopefully the ACT dealer will foot the bill...will have to keep waiting and see!

Mind you, his team were probably busy working on Terry's car! :P

Thank you John for your encouraging words. There aren't many dual fuel 380s around in reasonable condition that are "ready to buy", especially those in the more luxurious specs. So I really hope this 380 will work out fine, especially as I have a feeling Mitsubishi (Motors Australia Limited) is in my blood. I still miss my old trusty TR Magna that my mother passed on to me, with the 2.6 Astron II that I was crazy enough (to most people) to then modify with full Whiteline suspension, 16-inch Speedy Holotype-Rs, 225/50 Dunlop SP Sport 3000As, KS Verada headlights, a reasonable amplifier/subwoofer sound system with full door sound deadening, and so on. In fact, it would probably be still be around today, had it not met its fate being rear-ended by some inattentive driver back in January 2007 (the car was still driveable afterwards, but NRMA preferred to give me a cheque, rather than to fix it)...

Telpat16 - 16/9/2013 15:55

Yes - realised it was you arriving just after I left

I changed front cat myself but not enough lifting etc equip to get to the back one

Hopefully this will put and end to my random CEL's most of which are Lean Idle, but did have some Bad Cats as well



Terry - I had a look at Google Street View last night. Their images must've been out of date as I saw "Mercedes Benz" and "smart", and was wondering where "Mitsubishi" is...until I saw "Mercedes Benz" whilst heading down Elizabeth Street this morning, then turned my head hard right and just noticed in time that "Mitsubishi" had replaced "smart"...and almost missed turning right into their driveway!

Hopefully by now they have installed your second hand cat, and your GT is now running perfectly again!

But if I really do need my cat(s) replaced: would you recommended getting the ones with metal cores, rather than the ceramic cores? How much more do the metal-cored ones cost?
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Telpat16
Posted 16/9/2013 17:56 (#15725 - in reply to #14894)
Subject: Re: Recent LPG Starvation Issue



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Posts: 108
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Location: NEWPORT QLD		Just picked mine up - running OK but signs a new battery soon - original since 2007 so I can't complain

I have no experience with cats other than last week or so - John may have better ideas

But looking a manifold cat is integrated into exhaust header manifold, so I don't think can just change cat without new set up - eg extractors and aftermarket cats downstream somewhere
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